I consider myself well read on the history of Palestine and Zionism, and the history goes back further than 1948, all the way back to the First World War. You can point the finger at Trump if you like, and I won’t try to defend anything he did, but in the history of the modern Middle East nothing comes remotely close to what ‘Genocide Jo…
I consider myself well read on the history of Palestine and Zionism, and the history goes back further than 1948, all the way back to the First World War. You can point the finger at Trump if you like, and I won’t try to defend anything he did, but in the history of the modern Middle East nothing comes remotely close to what ‘Genocide Joe’ has done. He has a direct hand in murder and genocide that ranks right up there. I will not equivocate nor will I obfuscate (and you should not, either): Murder and Genocide; deliberate, continuous, and forceful.
Mr Protas, let me put this another way. You consider yourself well read on this history, and you focus your antipathy on Biden. So you're able to see problems beyond Netanyahu. The question, then, is why you can't see the problem Trump created. Maybe you're a hard right winger, and you just refuse to blame Trump for anything. Anyone who is genuinely well read about anything should have more perspective than that. "In the history the modern Middle East, nothing comes remotely close to what 'Genocide Joe' has done?" Netanyahu doesn't come remotely close? Trump doesn't come remotely close? I encourage you to rethink.
Mr Protas, I agree that the reconfiguration of the Middle East after WWI had a very disruptive effect. It caused regime changes and resentment against the "west."
Biden had nothing to do with that. I also already said I agreed with you about the horrifying effects of Biden's policies, whencever he got them. He most certainly, as you say, "has a direct hand in murder and genocide" by not stopping it, and by enabling/supporting/encouraging it instead. That is a central part of his "legacy." I doubt anyone here will disagree with you. Yes, I very much point a finger at Trump. Jerusalem was protected as an international and ecumenical city, until Trump gave an advantage (and permission) to Israel, because that's what his son-in-law wanted. Helluva way to manage international relations.
Allow me to first correct your misperceptions: I have been a life-long Democrat that leans far to the left in that tribe. I consider myself to be a progressive who held his nose in the last three elections to vote for the lesser evil. I would sooner put a gun to my head than vote for Trump. Got that?
Having said that, you picked this fight to throw Trump into the mix – thus my comment to you about equivocation and obfuscation. Donald Trump, the lowlife POS that he is, has nothing to do with the ongoing murder and genocide in Gaza; the cause of that crime is the political leadership of Israel, and the political leadership of the USA, to whit, Joe Biden. Full stop. Pointing your finger in any other direction only serves to cloud the truth, which you, for some reason desire.
Mr Protas, I did not misperceive anything. I wondered why you couldn't see what seemed obvious to me, and I simply wondered if you were a hard right winger. You're not. Neither am I.
I, like you, held my nose the last three elections.
I have mostly agreed with you, although you seem to want to argue with me. The only thing I have suggested to you, since you describe yourself as more knowledgeable than most about this topic, is that moving the US Embassy had a destabilizing effect that enabled Netanyahu to accelerate the already ongoing assaults on Palestinians, and which in turn eventually resulted in Oct 7 as a reaction. You are welcome to say you gave my suggestion some thought, and decided you don't agree. Do you have some other way to understand why the Embassy was moved, apart from the provocative and Israeli-backing effect? It had been as it was for a long time. Why change it?
I did not pick any fight. I'm trying to have a conversation with you. You choose to read Drop Site News, but your version of the "truth" is what's mindlessly prevalent on Fox News. If you think Trump is a "lowlife POS," why aren't you more skeptical about what he does and why he does it?
OK, I'm done. You choose to see"moving the US Embassy" as the proximate cause of Oct 7. I believe that view to be narrow and a serious misreading of the history of Palestine. Peace be upon you!
Mr Protas, you are almost strategically missing my point. Israel has been assaulting the West Bank and the Gaza Strip more or less from the beginning. There are illegal settlements, settlers attacking Palestinians, arrests for nothing. No Israeli government has confronted any of this, and no American government has failed to continue to support Israel. But a dramatic and uncharacteristic move was made a few years ago, involving the US Embassy. In my opinion, that dramatic and uncharacteristic move sent a message to the Israelis, that we were even more supportive than ever before of their ongoing efforts to conquer Palestinian territory. We "gave" them Jerusalem in a symbolic way. (After WWII, Palestine was divided into the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, which were set aside for the Palestinians, and Israel was created for the Jews. Jerusalem was held out as an international city that wasn't owned by anyone.) Statistics show increased hostile activity by the Israelis to the Palestinians in recent years, and I would argue that Oct 7 was not simply a hostile impulse by the Palestinians' protectors: Hamas. You are welcome to disagree with me. Then, you can tell me what you think stimulated October 7.
I should also tell you that I take a very dim view of people, especially if I have any reason to think they're chronological adults, who make a statement, then say they're done with the conversation. The part of what you typed the started with "you choose to see..." needed to be omitted, or expanded. If it was omitted, then that was the end of the conversation. And thanks for wishing me peace. If it was expanded, then we weren't done with the conversation.
I consider myself well read on the history of Palestine and Zionism, and the history goes back further than 1948, all the way back to the First World War. You can point the finger at Trump if you like, and I won’t try to defend anything he did, but in the history of the modern Middle East nothing comes remotely close to what ‘Genocide Joe’ has done. He has a direct hand in murder and genocide that ranks right up there. I will not equivocate nor will I obfuscate (and you should not, either): Murder and Genocide; deliberate, continuous, and forceful.
Mr Protas, let me put this another way. You consider yourself well read on this history, and you focus your antipathy on Biden. So you're able to see problems beyond Netanyahu. The question, then, is why you can't see the problem Trump created. Maybe you're a hard right winger, and you just refuse to blame Trump for anything. Anyone who is genuinely well read about anything should have more perspective than that. "In the history the modern Middle East, nothing comes remotely close to what 'Genocide Joe' has done?" Netanyahu doesn't come remotely close? Trump doesn't come remotely close? I encourage you to rethink.
Mr Protas, I agree that the reconfiguration of the Middle East after WWI had a very disruptive effect. It caused regime changes and resentment against the "west."
Biden had nothing to do with that. I also already said I agreed with you about the horrifying effects of Biden's policies, whencever he got them. He most certainly, as you say, "has a direct hand in murder and genocide" by not stopping it, and by enabling/supporting/encouraging it instead. That is a central part of his "legacy." I doubt anyone here will disagree with you. Yes, I very much point a finger at Trump. Jerusalem was protected as an international and ecumenical city, until Trump gave an advantage (and permission) to Israel, because that's what his son-in-law wanted. Helluva way to manage international relations.
Allow me to first correct your misperceptions: I have been a life-long Democrat that leans far to the left in that tribe. I consider myself to be a progressive who held his nose in the last three elections to vote for the lesser evil. I would sooner put a gun to my head than vote for Trump. Got that?
Having said that, you picked this fight to throw Trump into the mix – thus my comment to you about equivocation and obfuscation. Donald Trump, the lowlife POS that he is, has nothing to do with the ongoing murder and genocide in Gaza; the cause of that crime is the political leadership of Israel, and the political leadership of the USA, to whit, Joe Biden. Full stop. Pointing your finger in any other direction only serves to cloud the truth, which you, for some reason desire.
Mr Protas, I did not misperceive anything. I wondered why you couldn't see what seemed obvious to me, and I simply wondered if you were a hard right winger. You're not. Neither am I.
I, like you, held my nose the last three elections.
I have mostly agreed with you, although you seem to want to argue with me. The only thing I have suggested to you, since you describe yourself as more knowledgeable than most about this topic, is that moving the US Embassy had a destabilizing effect that enabled Netanyahu to accelerate the already ongoing assaults on Palestinians, and which in turn eventually resulted in Oct 7 as a reaction. You are welcome to say you gave my suggestion some thought, and decided you don't agree. Do you have some other way to understand why the Embassy was moved, apart from the provocative and Israeli-backing effect? It had been as it was for a long time. Why change it?
I did not pick any fight. I'm trying to have a conversation with you. You choose to read Drop Site News, but your version of the "truth" is what's mindlessly prevalent on Fox News. If you think Trump is a "lowlife POS," why aren't you more skeptical about what he does and why he does it?
OK, I'm done. You choose to see"moving the US Embassy" as the proximate cause of Oct 7. I believe that view to be narrow and a serious misreading of the history of Palestine. Peace be upon you!
Mr Protas, you are almost strategically missing my point. Israel has been assaulting the West Bank and the Gaza Strip more or less from the beginning. There are illegal settlements, settlers attacking Palestinians, arrests for nothing. No Israeli government has confronted any of this, and no American government has failed to continue to support Israel. But a dramatic and uncharacteristic move was made a few years ago, involving the US Embassy. In my opinion, that dramatic and uncharacteristic move sent a message to the Israelis, that we were even more supportive than ever before of their ongoing efforts to conquer Palestinian territory. We "gave" them Jerusalem in a symbolic way. (After WWII, Palestine was divided into the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, which were set aside for the Palestinians, and Israel was created for the Jews. Jerusalem was held out as an international city that wasn't owned by anyone.) Statistics show increased hostile activity by the Israelis to the Palestinians in recent years, and I would argue that Oct 7 was not simply a hostile impulse by the Palestinians' protectors: Hamas. You are welcome to disagree with me. Then, you can tell me what you think stimulated October 7.
I should also tell you that I take a very dim view of people, especially if I have any reason to think they're chronological adults, who make a statement, then say they're done with the conversation. The part of what you typed the started with "you choose to see..." needed to be omitted, or expanded. If it was omitted, then that was the end of the conversation. And thanks for wishing me peace. If it was expanded, then we weren't done with the conversation.