Thanks again. I admire many Jews...illan Pappe who I once had the honour to pass a few words with on a pavement as we made our individual ways to a lecture he was giving...a very good man. Norman Finkelstein, Gabor Matte, Max Blumenthal, Aaron Matte, Gideon levy and others I very much like listening to though my hearing is defective and …
Thanks again. I admire many Jews...illan Pappe who I once had the honour to pass a few words with on a pavement as we made our individual ways to a lecture he was giving...a very good man. Norman Finkelstein, Gabor Matte, Max Blumenthal, Aaron Matte, Gideon levy and others I very much like listening to though my hearing is defective and don't always hear all their interesting words. There are many in Israel that I admire...the young "refusniks"...The Peace activists...the brave individuals that attend the persecuted shepherds and farmers as they struggle with the regular incursions of those thuggish louts...in gangs and protected by IOF and police. Also some film-makers and academics that speak the truth. I must say too that I agree with what Yair Lapid stated about the recent inflammatory celebrations..."violent and degrading". Amongst the punk like gyrations of the indoctrinated, perhaps the worst and most hideous to witness was the ungracious leaps of extremely ungainly old women! But then one took in the equally repellent capers of the young ones only marginally less offensive perhaps because they so easily led. As i have said in a post elsewhere "it is hard to see how Israel could degrade itself yet further but I am certain it can find a way".
I don't know how old you are but I certainly hope that you have not been so firmly cemented into WOKE oppressed/oppressor delusions that you will never be able to look at life outside your completely predetermined notions.
Hi Toby...I am 78 and still groovin' on pretty well except for my knees! I have never understood that term WOKE and haven't bothered to investigate. I usually ignore new catch words such as "gobsmacked" etc that I presume are propagated by the crap mainstream papers. Yes I am about the same age as Israel's illegal occupation! Don't worry...the "world" has a very tenuous hold on me! Do you like this Don Vliet phrase "there would be no game brother if no-one would play"? I do. I watch birds bathe and drink. It is very relaxing.
Israel is not an illegal occupier. Modern Zionists posited that the way for Jews to end persecution and repeated expulsions was to return to their ancient homeland. They began returning in the mid to late 1800's and found that Zion had become Palestine, a sparsely populated, underdeveloped area in the Southern Syrian administrative district of the Ottoman Empire. The Jews bought land and improved its productivity, built schools and hospitals, organized civil defense units, and lobbied world leaders for the cause. Many of today's Palestinians descend from Arabs who entered the area only after Zionist activity had raised its living standards. When the Ottoman Empire collapsed after entering WWI on the losing side, its land was divided into mandates and, later, modern states, the Zionists had a de facto government ready to rule.
The Arabs of Palestine might have gotten a state of their own had Arab leaders accepted the UN Partiton Plan and helped the "Southern Syrians" get ready for autonomy. But the Arab states went to war and the Jews had to defeat them so Israel could be reborn.
Instead of moaning and groaning about the "nakba" (getting trapped in refugee limbo (by their own leaders)), the Palestinians should follow the Jews' example. Remember your past, but always work to build your future.
Toby I think it not possible to continue taking up valuable space here on this subject. You can refer to the past history that you support while I shall continue to oppose the injustice...as I see it...that concerns the millions of oppressed people now. I hope that the Palestinian people attain a State where they can live free of any Israeli interference or American-designed terrorism. But that is asking a lot as the USA has wrought immeasurable harm to the world by its desire for complete control. Little Israel imitates it, fawns and purrs. At last Israel has been exposed to the world...biblical stories are expounded WHEN useful as propaganda etc but I fail to understand the latest one trotted out about Joshua and Jericho...surely that reveals that modern Israelis have not advanced one inch from the ancient ones. Do you really see Israel building a future that isn't an abomination in the eyes of the world?
I know what you mean by "Israeli interference" -- those damn Jews actually strike back when they're attacked. The Arabs have a long history of playing the victim and demanding that everyone stand with them. I used to teach chemistry at a college which had an agriculture school. One of my students was a Nigerian who'd been sent by his government for training. He told me that Israel had been helping Nigeria to improve its farming practices but the Nigerian govenment put a halt to that because the Arab nations in North Africa had insisted that the black African countries should stand with their fellow Africans. I asked my student what help the Arabs had provided when Nigeria stop accepting Israeli assistance. He said, "Nothing. The Arabs didn't even give us the cheap oil they promised."
If exposure to thinking beyond your "everyone is either an oppressor or an oppressee and I (Jeffery John Higgs) know exactly who is in each group and I also know that no member of either group ever acts in opposition to my classification," you can stop my replying to your messages. Just stop writing to me.
I will continue defending Israel because Israel is obeying the Rules of Conflict (even going beyond what is required -- what other nation, while still being attacked, sends humanitarian aid to the enemy ?).
The entire Western world should be backing Israel against Islamists who want to defeat the West and replace democracy with Sharia. Israel needs a decisive victory against Hamas, as the first step in demilitarizing Gaza, yet the IDF is making valiant efforts to avoid killing civilians -- while Hamas works to endanger the civlians in Gaza -- and blame Israel--to get propaganda points from a gullible media and Woke antisemites.
I had to "break" my long post as I feared it was going to disappear as several have. I couldn't get the page to move to add my last lines, which is that I do not know where I learned "bugger" for my father in his short life was NEVER known to swear. Probably early schooling. That episode cemented( a word you used in an earlier post) a lifelong hatred of bullies and several "fights" ...my death grip until my adversary turned blue and capitulated. Very few were on my behalf but usually for somebody physically or temperamentally unable to stand up for themselves.
There are several points you make Toby that are manifestly lies...do you, a teacher of Chemistry challenge the specialist surgeons, the pediatricians, and reconstructive limb and face surgeons, highly skilled Palestinians and the extremely brave and dedicated volunteer doctors and medical experts compelled by conscience to attempt to carry out their chosen humanitarian work dare to refute their testimonies...to deny their knowledge, dismiss their hands-on experience? If you do you a fool. But I think you are an intelligent man that unfortunately so indoctrinated by the DESIRE to portray Israel as you would like to see it and the world to see it that way too, but we don't! You gave a anecdote about Israel...Africa, and Arabs. I shall give you a personal one in return if you will bear with me. When I was six years old my father had left the Royal navy in which he had served as a submariner. He left England to work in Aden as an electrical and refrigeration engineer from 1952-1954 and not returning for the duration. His object was to raise the necessary money to buy us a first family home or the deposit for the same. Whilst away for so long my mother had a formidable struggle to manage being a young woman buffeted by the gales of the world...not least among them the unwanted attentions of men. Father sent us the means to buy a television which as you will know were at that time by no means commonplace. The picture quality was poor (snowy) but we knew no different. And now here is my tale...I crept down the stairs of our rented home to peer unnoticed by my lonely mother through the almost closed door at this new instrument. What I witnessed...a very young boy, stays with me to this day. It was a film and the scene was of a large bullying Bosun attempting to force pork into the mouth of Jewish crew member of a ship...So outraged was I despite no knowledge of prejudice or racial discrimination... in tears I shouted out "bugger" alarming my mother.
Interesting story. As a child, you seem to have thought for yourself. I wonder, though how you knew that the crew member was Jewish and that Jews do not eat pork. I recall an incident from my time in elementary school (I am three years younger than you are). My sixth grade teacher took my class to see a movie on Brotherhood. It was set in England. In the opening scene, a young boy tells a young girl that his father does not like Catholics. The girl responds that she is not Catholic, but Jewish. And the boy replies that his father doesn't like Jews either. A Jewish classmate tapped me on the shoulder and said, "What else is there?" We lived in Brooklyn, New York and most of the students in our public school were Jewish. The majority of the people in our section of Brooklyn were Italian Catholics and their children generally attended Catholic private schools. The majority of my classmates throughout elementary and high school were Jews. While there was a Dutch Reform church a couple of blocks from the apartment building in which my family lived, we really didn't know any Protestants.
I don't doubt that there are medical workers trying to save lives in Gaza. But they are living under Hamas rule and can't speak freely. The storage of munitions in hospital parking lots and the placing of strategic planning rooms under hospitals make hospitals legitimate military targets and put Gazan lives in danger. So say Major John Spencer and Colonel Richard Kemp. They are military experts and know whereof they speak.
My son-in-law is British. His maternal grandmother got out of Germany on a kinder transport. I was surprised, when I first visited my daughter's home after her marriage, to see that my son-in-law had pictures and other family heirlooms from Germany. It seems that his family lived in a very unusual area of Germany, where Christian neighbors did all that they could to protect their Jewish neighbors. My son-in-law's great-grandfather had signed their possessions over to a maid who had been a faithful employee for years. Several years after WWII ended, the family was able to return to Germany and the maid gave them the things she had saved for them. Again, there is a lesson here. Many Germans were complicit in the slaughter of the Jews -- but not all. People don't fit conveniently into boxes and looking at the boxes can't predict who will join the mob and who will think independently and act bravely against the label pinned on him or her.
Thanks again. I admire many Jews...illan Pappe who I once had the honour to pass a few words with on a pavement as we made our individual ways to a lecture he was giving...a very good man. Norman Finkelstein, Gabor Matte, Max Blumenthal, Aaron Matte, Gideon levy and others I very much like listening to though my hearing is defective and don't always hear all their interesting words. There are many in Israel that I admire...the young "refusniks"...The Peace activists...the brave individuals that attend the persecuted shepherds and farmers as they struggle with the regular incursions of those thuggish louts...in gangs and protected by IOF and police. Also some film-makers and academics that speak the truth. I must say too that I agree with what Yair Lapid stated about the recent inflammatory celebrations..."violent and degrading". Amongst the punk like gyrations of the indoctrinated, perhaps the worst and most hideous to witness was the ungracious leaps of extremely ungainly old women! But then one took in the equally repellent capers of the young ones only marginally less offensive perhaps because they so easily led. As i have said in a post elsewhere "it is hard to see how Israel could degrade itself yet further but I am certain it can find a way".
I don't know how old you are but I certainly hope that you have not been so firmly cemented into WOKE oppressed/oppressor delusions that you will never be able to look at life outside your completely predetermined notions.
Hi Toby...I am 78 and still groovin' on pretty well except for my knees! I have never understood that term WOKE and haven't bothered to investigate. I usually ignore new catch words such as "gobsmacked" etc that I presume are propagated by the crap mainstream papers. Yes I am about the same age as Israel's illegal occupation! Don't worry...the "world" has a very tenuous hold on me! Do you like this Don Vliet phrase "there would be no game brother if no-one would play"? I do. I watch birds bathe and drink. It is very relaxing.
ing
Israel is not an illegal occupier. Modern Zionists posited that the way for Jews to end persecution and repeated expulsions was to return to their ancient homeland. They began returning in the mid to late 1800's and found that Zion had become Palestine, a sparsely populated, underdeveloped area in the Southern Syrian administrative district of the Ottoman Empire. The Jews bought land and improved its productivity, built schools and hospitals, organized civil defense units, and lobbied world leaders for the cause. Many of today's Palestinians descend from Arabs who entered the area only after Zionist activity had raised its living standards. When the Ottoman Empire collapsed after entering WWI on the losing side, its land was divided into mandates and, later, modern states, the Zionists had a de facto government ready to rule.
The Arabs of Palestine might have gotten a state of their own had Arab leaders accepted the UN Partiton Plan and helped the "Southern Syrians" get ready for autonomy. But the Arab states went to war and the Jews had to defeat them so Israel could be reborn.
Instead of moaning and groaning about the "nakba" (getting trapped in refugee limbo (by their own leaders)), the Palestinians should follow the Jews' example. Remember your past, but always work to build your future.
Toby I think it not possible to continue taking up valuable space here on this subject. You can refer to the past history that you support while I shall continue to oppose the injustice...as I see it...that concerns the millions of oppressed people now. I hope that the Palestinian people attain a State where they can live free of any Israeli interference or American-designed terrorism. But that is asking a lot as the USA has wrought immeasurable harm to the world by its desire for complete control. Little Israel imitates it, fawns and purrs. At last Israel has been exposed to the world...biblical stories are expounded WHEN useful as propaganda etc but I fail to understand the latest one trotted out about Joshua and Jericho...surely that reveals that modern Israelis have not advanced one inch from the ancient ones. Do you really see Israel building a future that isn't an abomination in the eyes of the world?
I know what you mean by "Israeli interference" -- those damn Jews actually strike back when they're attacked. The Arabs have a long history of playing the victim and demanding that everyone stand with them. I used to teach chemistry at a college which had an agriculture school. One of my students was a Nigerian who'd been sent by his government for training. He told me that Israel had been helping Nigeria to improve its farming practices but the Nigerian govenment put a halt to that because the Arab nations in North Africa had insisted that the black African countries should stand with their fellow Africans. I asked my student what help the Arabs had provided when Nigeria stop accepting Israeli assistance. He said, "Nothing. The Arabs didn't even give us the cheap oil they promised."
If exposure to thinking beyond your "everyone is either an oppressor or an oppressee and I (Jeffery John Higgs) know exactly who is in each group and I also know that no member of either group ever acts in opposition to my classification," you can stop my replying to your messages. Just stop writing to me.
You carry on supporting Israel's abominable strategies to expand and dominate and I will carry on denouncing them.
I will continue defending Israel because Israel is obeying the Rules of Conflict (even going beyond what is required -- what other nation, while still being attacked, sends humanitarian aid to the enemy ?).
The entire Western world should be backing Israel against Islamists who want to defeat the West and replace democracy with Sharia. Israel needs a decisive victory against Hamas, as the first step in demilitarizing Gaza, yet the IDF is making valiant efforts to avoid killing civilians -- while Hamas works to endanger the civlians in Gaza -- and blame Israel--to get propaganda points from a gullible media and Woke antisemites.
I had to "break" my long post as I feared it was going to disappear as several have. I couldn't get the page to move to add my last lines, which is that I do not know where I learned "bugger" for my father in his short life was NEVER known to swear. Probably early schooling. That episode cemented( a word you used in an earlier post) a lifelong hatred of bullies and several "fights" ...my death grip until my adversary turned blue and capitulated. Very few were on my behalf but usually for somebody physically or temperamentally unable to stand up for themselves.
There are several points you make Toby that are manifestly lies...do you, a teacher of Chemistry challenge the specialist surgeons, the pediatricians, and reconstructive limb and face surgeons, highly skilled Palestinians and the extremely brave and dedicated volunteer doctors and medical experts compelled by conscience to attempt to carry out their chosen humanitarian work dare to refute their testimonies...to deny their knowledge, dismiss their hands-on experience? If you do you a fool. But I think you are an intelligent man that unfortunately so indoctrinated by the DESIRE to portray Israel as you would like to see it and the world to see it that way too, but we don't! You gave a anecdote about Israel...Africa, and Arabs. I shall give you a personal one in return if you will bear with me. When I was six years old my father had left the Royal navy in which he had served as a submariner. He left England to work in Aden as an electrical and refrigeration engineer from 1952-1954 and not returning for the duration. His object was to raise the necessary money to buy us a first family home or the deposit for the same. Whilst away for so long my mother had a formidable struggle to manage being a young woman buffeted by the gales of the world...not least among them the unwanted attentions of men. Father sent us the means to buy a television which as you will know were at that time by no means commonplace. The picture quality was poor (snowy) but we knew no different. And now here is my tale...I crept down the stairs of our rented home to peer unnoticed by my lonely mother through the almost closed door at this new instrument. What I witnessed...a very young boy, stays with me to this day. It was a film and the scene was of a large bullying Bosun attempting to force pork into the mouth of Jewish crew member of a ship...So outraged was I despite no knowledge of prejudice or racial discrimination... in tears I shouted out "bugger" alarming my mother.
Interesting story. As a child, you seem to have thought for yourself. I wonder, though how you knew that the crew member was Jewish and that Jews do not eat pork. I recall an incident from my time in elementary school (I am three years younger than you are). My sixth grade teacher took my class to see a movie on Brotherhood. It was set in England. In the opening scene, a young boy tells a young girl that his father does not like Catholics. The girl responds that she is not Catholic, but Jewish. And the boy replies that his father doesn't like Jews either. A Jewish classmate tapped me on the shoulder and said, "What else is there?" We lived in Brooklyn, New York and most of the students in our public school were Jewish. The majority of the people in our section of Brooklyn were Italian Catholics and their children generally attended Catholic private schools. The majority of my classmates throughout elementary and high school were Jews. While there was a Dutch Reform church a couple of blocks from the apartment building in which my family lived, we really didn't know any Protestants.
I don't doubt that there are medical workers trying to save lives in Gaza. But they are living under Hamas rule and can't speak freely. The storage of munitions in hospital parking lots and the placing of strategic planning rooms under hospitals make hospitals legitimate military targets and put Gazan lives in danger. So say Major John Spencer and Colonel Richard Kemp. They are military experts and know whereof they speak.
My son-in-law is British. His maternal grandmother got out of Germany on a kinder transport. I was surprised, when I first visited my daughter's home after her marriage, to see that my son-in-law had pictures and other family heirlooms from Germany. It seems that his family lived in a very unusual area of Germany, where Christian neighbors did all that they could to protect their Jewish neighbors. My son-in-law's great-grandfather had signed their possessions over to a maid who had been a faithful employee for years. Several years after WWII ended, the family was able to return to Germany and the maid gave them the things she had saved for them. Again, there is a lesson here. Many Germans were complicit in the slaughter of the Jews -- but not all. People don't fit conveniently into boxes and looking at the boxes can't predict who will join the mob and who will think independently and act bravely against the label pinned on him or her.