I have an Israeli-American friend who insists that Israel is not committing genocide against the Palestinians. I've asked him if "genocide" is the wrong word, what the right word is.
I have an Israeli-American friend who insists that Israel is not committing genocide against the Palestinians. I've asked him if "genocide" is the wrong word, what the right word is.
I think the word you're looking for is punitive action. The idea is that, from their perspective, this is retribution for October 7th — basically a "fuck around and find out" kind of logic. The goal, in their eyes, is to ensure no future attacks by responding with overwhelming force.
Thing is, both genocide and punitive action can look very similar in execution — mass casualties, destruction, displacement — but the key difference lies in the intent and endgame. Genocide aims to eliminate a group because of who they are; punitive action aims to punish them for what they did (or are accused of doing).
That said, the label doesn’t change the reality: both can involve war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Understood, and my friend would largely agree with you. So here's the problem.
Israel is "punishing" people who didn't do anything. And they've been doing it for decades. Both my Israeli-American friend and another friend whose parents were caught up in the Holocaust both openly say there's no such thing as a good Palestinian. Both of them say that Palestinians are reared on hatred of Jews, so there's no difference between a Hamas fighter and a newborn Palestinian baby.
Also, to the extent that Israel would argue that it's punishing anyone for 10/7/23, their mistreatment of entirely innocent Palestinians began long before that. Hamas, and Hezbollah, and the PLO, exist for a reason. And it's not in order to express to Israel how grateful they are for the good treatment they've always gotten.
The endgame is genocide. My Israeli-American friend doesn't like the "g word." He sent me a video of some professor who's an expert in genocide, and who explained that genocide isn't just killing an entire population of people. It's destroying their way of life. Israelis claim to be being strategic to spare the lives of civilians. But that's most of their victims. They specifically destroy hospitals, which they claim have Hamas tunnels beneath them. They prevent civilian Palestinians from getting food. Israel agreed to a ceasefire at the end of November, '23. They got back half the hostages, then ended the ceasefire. If they cared about their own people -- Israelis held hostage by Hamas -- they would have extended the ceasefire. This is all about genocide.
Gotcha — and yeah, I get where you're coming from. Your friend might reject the word genocide, but his logic walks right into it.
Still, I don’t really argue for either side — I’m just observing. But for the sake of discussion:
You said Israel’s “punishing” people who didn’t do anything. That’s true — but that’s always the case in war. 99% of those killed aren’t guilty of anything. Even most soldiers are just poor kids caught up in it. War isn’t moral — it’s transactional. Realpolitik doesn’t care who’s innocent.
As for whether this is genocide or just punishment? Honestly, I don't know. If Hamas had proper bases — real military sites away from civilians — and Israel still targeted random neighborhoods, then sure, call it what it is. But when they fought actual armies in the past (like Egypt or Syria), they didn’t operate like this. Then again, that was 60+ years ago.
On the decades-long mess — yeah, Israel’s been holding Gaza and the West Bank in a chokehold. But I think the UN did Palestinians dirty too. They gave them a special refugee status that passes down generations — along with a "right to return." That locked them in place. No other group in history got that. It gave just enough hope to make sure they'd never move on. So now you’ve got a situation where Palestinians are locked into endless struggle, clinging to legal promises, while Israel knows it can’t win or lose — so it just manages the conflict. That’s where “mowing the lawn” and calorie-counting come from.
About how people see each other — yeah, it’s ugly. But honestly? I get it. You live under threat, you build stories to justify it. My country was occupied by Russians for 40 years — my view of them is different from someone who’s never lived under that kind of pressure. Same goes for both sides in this mess. Palestinians demonize Jews too. No one’s hands are clean in the perception war.
Remember that famous photo — the Palestinian guy grinning, holding up his blood-covered hands after they literally tore apart two Israeli soldiers with their bare hands? You don’t have that kind of joy in your eyes unless you truly believe ripping someone limb from limb was the greatest feat of your life. Man, I still can’t comprehend how a bunch of retards can hold that up as a symbol of resistance in protests… but whatever, let’s move on.
Destroying infrastructure, hospitals, schools? That lines up with punitive action. “You fuck with us, we make sure you suffer.” Cut food, wipe out hospitals, block aid — not because it's smart or surgical, but because the point is to break you enough that you never try again. It’s brutal, but if your top priorities are:
1. This must never happen again
2. Hostages are a secondary concern
Then yeah, that logic leads exactly here. If those were my only options, I might make the same call. Still not sure why they haven’t just flooded the tunnels, though — weird oversight.
And yeah, legally? This probably is genocide. Francesca Albanese and others have made solid arguments for it. But I’m not reacting to legal definitions — I just don’t have a strong reaction to the label. Genocide and ethnic cleansing are tools humans use all the time. Look around the world — there are dozens, maybe hundreds of examples. It’s ugly, but it’s not rare. What hits me harder is raw mass slaughter — Rwanda, Holocaust-level — and we’re not there.
Please note: I have no horse in this race. I don’t care that much — as long as they keep this shit in their patch of desert.
I understand everything you say, and I agree with many parts of it. But Israel has from its inception been sophisticated, smart, careful, and surgical. All of these civilian deaths are not unfortunate mistakes. This is genocide. You can dress it up as "this must never happen again," but it's fundamentally genocide.
I have an Israeli-American friend who insists that Israel is not committing genocide against the Palestinians. I've asked him if "genocide" is the wrong word, what the right word is.
I think the word you're looking for is punitive action. The idea is that, from their perspective, this is retribution for October 7th — basically a "fuck around and find out" kind of logic. The goal, in their eyes, is to ensure no future attacks by responding with overwhelming force.
Thing is, both genocide and punitive action can look very similar in execution — mass casualties, destruction, displacement — but the key difference lies in the intent and endgame. Genocide aims to eliminate a group because of who they are; punitive action aims to punish them for what they did (or are accused of doing).
That said, the label doesn’t change the reality: both can involve war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Understood, and my friend would largely agree with you. So here's the problem.
Israel is "punishing" people who didn't do anything. And they've been doing it for decades. Both my Israeli-American friend and another friend whose parents were caught up in the Holocaust both openly say there's no such thing as a good Palestinian. Both of them say that Palestinians are reared on hatred of Jews, so there's no difference between a Hamas fighter and a newborn Palestinian baby.
Also, to the extent that Israel would argue that it's punishing anyone for 10/7/23, their mistreatment of entirely innocent Palestinians began long before that. Hamas, and Hezbollah, and the PLO, exist for a reason. And it's not in order to express to Israel how grateful they are for the good treatment they've always gotten.
The endgame is genocide. My Israeli-American friend doesn't like the "g word." He sent me a video of some professor who's an expert in genocide, and who explained that genocide isn't just killing an entire population of people. It's destroying their way of life. Israelis claim to be being strategic to spare the lives of civilians. But that's most of their victims. They specifically destroy hospitals, which they claim have Hamas tunnels beneath them. They prevent civilian Palestinians from getting food. Israel agreed to a ceasefire at the end of November, '23. They got back half the hostages, then ended the ceasefire. If they cared about their own people -- Israelis held hostage by Hamas -- they would have extended the ceasefire. This is all about genocide.
Gotcha — and yeah, I get where you're coming from. Your friend might reject the word genocide, but his logic walks right into it.
Still, I don’t really argue for either side — I’m just observing. But for the sake of discussion:
You said Israel’s “punishing” people who didn’t do anything. That’s true — but that’s always the case in war. 99% of those killed aren’t guilty of anything. Even most soldiers are just poor kids caught up in it. War isn’t moral — it’s transactional. Realpolitik doesn’t care who’s innocent.
As for whether this is genocide or just punishment? Honestly, I don't know. If Hamas had proper bases — real military sites away from civilians — and Israel still targeted random neighborhoods, then sure, call it what it is. But when they fought actual armies in the past (like Egypt or Syria), they didn’t operate like this. Then again, that was 60+ years ago.
On the decades-long mess — yeah, Israel’s been holding Gaza and the West Bank in a chokehold. But I think the UN did Palestinians dirty too. They gave them a special refugee status that passes down generations — along with a "right to return." That locked them in place. No other group in history got that. It gave just enough hope to make sure they'd never move on. So now you’ve got a situation where Palestinians are locked into endless struggle, clinging to legal promises, while Israel knows it can’t win or lose — so it just manages the conflict. That’s where “mowing the lawn” and calorie-counting come from.
About how people see each other — yeah, it’s ugly. But honestly? I get it. You live under threat, you build stories to justify it. My country was occupied by Russians for 40 years — my view of them is different from someone who’s never lived under that kind of pressure. Same goes for both sides in this mess. Palestinians demonize Jews too. No one’s hands are clean in the perception war.
Remember that famous photo — the Palestinian guy grinning, holding up his blood-covered hands after they literally tore apart two Israeli soldiers with their bare hands? You don’t have that kind of joy in your eyes unless you truly believe ripping someone limb from limb was the greatest feat of your life. Man, I still can’t comprehend how a bunch of retards can hold that up as a symbol of resistance in protests… but whatever, let’s move on.
Destroying infrastructure, hospitals, schools? That lines up with punitive action. “You fuck with us, we make sure you suffer.” Cut food, wipe out hospitals, block aid — not because it's smart or surgical, but because the point is to break you enough that you never try again. It’s brutal, but if your top priorities are:
1. This must never happen again
2. Hostages are a secondary concern
Then yeah, that logic leads exactly here. If those were my only options, I might make the same call. Still not sure why they haven’t just flooded the tunnels, though — weird oversight.
And yeah, legally? This probably is genocide. Francesca Albanese and others have made solid arguments for it. But I’m not reacting to legal definitions — I just don’t have a strong reaction to the label. Genocide and ethnic cleansing are tools humans use all the time. Look around the world — there are dozens, maybe hundreds of examples. It’s ugly, but it’s not rare. What hits me harder is raw mass slaughter — Rwanda, Holocaust-level — and we’re not there.
Please note: I have no horse in this race. I don’t care that much — as long as they keep this shit in their patch of desert.
I understand everything you say, and I agree with many parts of it. But Israel has from its inception been sophisticated, smart, careful, and surgical. All of these civilian deaths are not unfortunate mistakes. This is genocide. You can dress it up as "this must never happen again," but it's fundamentally genocide.
Yes, it fulfills all legal necessities for genocide at least as far as I know.