I have to admit that you have knowledge(whether it is correct or not is a different matter). I am sure there are many different opinions on this subject...shall we blame Germany? or perhaps Britain after the first world war, when Britain and France dishonoured agreements with some of the Arabs that fought with the allies? Some historians…
I have to admit that you have knowledge(whether it is correct or not is a different matter). I am sure there are many different opinions on this subject...shall we blame Germany? or perhaps Britain after the first world war, when Britain and France dishonoured agreements with some of the Arabs that fought with the allies? Some historians claim that T E Lawrence was much disaffected by this treason. However.as I have stated, I am neither historian or scholar...you might be. What I and many other ordinary people are highly disturbed about is the present. an I candidly ask you if you consider starving a population ethical and permissive?(especially young children that need nutrition to develop and grow. If you have children would it concern you that they were being deliberately starved as well as bombed and denied all medical necessities? I will answer that question I posed for you...you would, so how can you appear to detach and defend Israel's cruel and evil intent to ethnically cleanse Gaza and to expand the illegal occupation? I appreciate that you have been civil despite our opposing perspectives, but I shall adhere to the wisdom of great orator and holocaust survivor Stephen Kapos. I suggest with all due respect that his opinion bears more weight than yours or mine.
I will refer you to the opinions of Major John Spencer, head of Urban Warfare Studies in West Point's Modern Warfare Institute, who has praised Israel's efforts to avoid killing civilians (by revealing plans for actions against Hamas and advising people to leave areas in which combat will be occuring). He has noted that Hamas' fortifications were deliberately embedded so deeply amid the Gazan populace that any Israeli response to Hamas' attacks on Israel would inevitably kill some noncombatants. Major Spencer said (on X) that Hamas has gone beyond using Gazans as human shields and is, in fact, sacrificing them.
Now I know that the US rebuilt Germany and Japan after World War II and people used to joke about starting wars against the US and deliberately losing (because the US would now boost the "enemy's" economy after the war. (Check out "The Mouse That Roared", a Peter Sellers movie.
But Israel is being criticized for not supplying enough aid to the people who cheered the vow of Israel's attackers to continue raping, torturing, and killing Israelis and anyone working with them -- while the war is still ongoing!! That is unheard of. And, frankly, I'm amazed that Hamas isn't ashamed that, after 20 years of running Gaza, the people living under Hamas administration are still dependent on food, water, electricity, and medicine supplied by Israel.
You've said, "The oppressors are always wrong and the oppressed are always right. That'a a bit simplistic. People can think and learn drom life. Most of us are neither angels or devils, but people -- bad ones may have some redeeming features and very good ones may occasionally sin. Today's "Woke Folk" cling too strongly to their characterizations and act on Woke dictats instead of making their own decisions.
Has Israel besieged Gaza for about seventeen years..calorie- counted aid going into this fenced- in Palestinian enclave and prevented freedom of travel for the majority of the population or not. Has it weaponised electricity and water...turning it on or off abitrarily? Does Israel's policies deliberately confer hardship on Palestinians and attempt to repress their everyday tasks in life? Do heavily armed indoctrinated thugs invade Palestinian homes under the pretext of suspicion of "terrorist" activity therein...does the illegal Israeli occupying forces arrest young and old in what is called administrative detention and are the illegal so-called settlers constantly harassing Palestinian and Bedouin herders and farmers, intimidating families, frightening the children?.. (to my mind the worst of crimes) among the gamut of perpetual persecution. The British Empire became so by ruthless suppression of the poorly or unarmed natives of far-flung places, many other European nations the same as you well know...but what expiation of their former sins have we witnessed? The Arabs involved in the heinous practice of slavery...we know that the globe is a heaving mass of iniquity...we know that Europeans and a few others pillaged the pristine continent of the Americas...but we can't go back to re-set those abominations but we should try our best to prevent the present ones. It is known that Israel is one of the worst examples today, though there are many others but most are not described as "our allies". I believe that after the attack on the US ship "Liberty" when many were killed and injured and the Israelis claimed it was misidentification Dean Rusk is reported to have stated " I didn't believe them then and I don't believe them now". Not many do.
Yeah. That awful little country which shares its advances in agriculture, technology, and medicine with the world. The Jewish country where an Arab Supreme Court Justice sent a President to jail. The tiny country which, while under attack and suffering food shortages, rehabilitated Holocaust survivors and Mizrachim driven from their homes in the Middle East and North Africa and which still sends rescue teams when disaster strikes world wide (even to countries with which it doesn't have diplomatic relations). Israeli teams are often the first to arrive and the most effective in giving help.
Compare that to the Arabs -- despite having huge landholdings and some being oil rich, they used their numerous votes in the UN to set up a special "refugee"agency" which hasn't resettled a single "refugee" but teaches second, third, and fourth generations of Palestinians who fled or were displaced from PAlestine in Arab-initiated wars, that killing Jews is an Arab's ticket to Heaven. Consider what money wasted on the Palestine refugees' eternal internment in UNRWA "terror towns" could do for current refugees and survivors of natural disasters.
Many Israelis are troubled by the "administrative detentions." But a tiny country surrounded by enemies depends heavily about being able to act pre-emptively. And open arraignments could threaten the exposure of intelligence-gatherers' identities. Israel is not the evil entity you think it is. And the Palestinian leaders aren't the innocent victims you think they are.
Thanks again. I admire many Jews...illan Pappe who I once had the honour to pass a few words with on a pavement as we made our individual ways to a lecture he was giving...a very good man. Norman Finkelstein, Gabor Matte, Max Blumenthal, Aaron Matte, Gideon levy and others I very much like listening to though my hearing is defective and don't always hear all their interesting words. There are many in Israel that I admire...the young "refusniks"...The Peace activists...the brave individuals that attend the persecuted shepherds and farmers as they struggle with the regular incursions of those thuggish louts...in gangs and protected by IOF and police. Also some film-makers and academics that speak the truth. I must say too that I agree with what Yair Lapid stated about the recent inflammatory celebrations..."violent and degrading". Amongst the punk like gyrations of the indoctrinated, perhaps the worst and most hideous to witness was the ungracious leaps of extremely ungainly old women! But then one took in the equally repellent capers of the young ones only marginally less offensive perhaps because they so easily led. As i have said in a post elsewhere "it is hard to see how Israel could degrade itself yet further but I am certain it can find a way".
I don't know how old you are but I certainly hope that you have not been so firmly cemented into WOKE oppressed/oppressor delusions that you will never be able to look at life outside your completely predetermined notions.
Hi Toby...I am 78 and still groovin' on pretty well except for my knees! I have never understood that term WOKE and haven't bothered to investigate. I usually ignore new catch words such as "gobsmacked" etc that I presume are propagated by the crap mainstream papers. Yes I am about the same age as Israel's illegal occupation! Don't worry...the "world" has a very tenuous hold on me! Do you like this Don Vliet phrase "there would be no game brother if no-one would play"? I do. I watch birds bathe and drink. It is very relaxing.
Israel is not an illegal occupier. Modern Zionists posited that the way for Jews to end persecution and repeated expulsions was to return to their ancient homeland. They began returning in the mid to late 1800's and found that Zion had become Palestine, a sparsely populated, underdeveloped area in the Southern Syrian administrative district of the Ottoman Empire. The Jews bought land and improved its productivity, built schools and hospitals, organized civil defense units, and lobbied world leaders for the cause. Many of today's Palestinians descend from Arabs who entered the area only after Zionist activity had raised its living standards. When the Ottoman Empire collapsed after entering WWI on the losing side, its land was divided into mandates and, later, modern states, the Zionists had a de facto government ready to rule.
The Arabs of Palestine might have gotten a state of their own had Arab leaders accepted the UN Partiton Plan and helped the "Southern Syrians" get ready for autonomy. But the Arab states went to war and the Jews had to defeat them so Israel could be reborn.
Instead of moaning and groaning about the "nakba" (getting trapped in refugee limbo (by their own leaders)), the Palestinians should follow the Jews' example. Remember your past, but always work to build your future.
Toby I think it not possible to continue taking up valuable space here on this subject. You can refer to the past history that you support while I shall continue to oppose the injustice...as I see it...that concerns the millions of oppressed people now. I hope that the Palestinian people attain a State where they can live free of any Israeli interference or American-designed terrorism. But that is asking a lot as the USA has wrought immeasurable harm to the world by its desire for complete control. Little Israel imitates it, fawns and purrs. At last Israel has been exposed to the world...biblical stories are expounded WHEN useful as propaganda etc but I fail to understand the latest one trotted out about Joshua and Jericho...surely that reveals that modern Israelis have not advanced one inch from the ancient ones. Do you really see Israel building a future that isn't an abomination in the eyes of the world?
I know what you mean by "Israeli interference" -- those damn Jews actually strike back when they're attacked. The Arabs have a long history of playing the victim and demanding that everyone stand with them. I used to teach chemistry at a college which had an agriculture school. One of my students was a Nigerian who'd been sent by his government for training. He told me that Israel had been helping Nigeria to improve its farming practices but the Nigerian govenment put a halt to that because the Arab nations in North Africa had insisted that the black African countries should stand with their fellow Africans. I asked my student what help the Arabs had provided when Nigeria stop accepting Israeli assistance. He said, "Nothing. The Arabs didn't even give us the cheap oil they promised."
If exposure to thinking beyond your "everyone is either an oppressor or an oppressee and I (Jeffery John Higgs) know exactly who is in each group and I also know that no member of either group ever acts in opposition to my classification," you can stop my replying to your messages. Just stop writing to me.
I have to admit that you have knowledge(whether it is correct or not is a different matter). I am sure there are many different opinions on this subject...shall we blame Germany? or perhaps Britain after the first world war, when Britain and France dishonoured agreements with some of the Arabs that fought with the allies? Some historians claim that T E Lawrence was much disaffected by this treason. However.as I have stated, I am neither historian or scholar...you might be. What I and many other ordinary people are highly disturbed about is the present. an I candidly ask you if you consider starving a population ethical and permissive?(especially young children that need nutrition to develop and grow. If you have children would it concern you that they were being deliberately starved as well as bombed and denied all medical necessities? I will answer that question I posed for you...you would, so how can you appear to detach and defend Israel's cruel and evil intent to ethnically cleanse Gaza and to expand the illegal occupation? I appreciate that you have been civil despite our opposing perspectives, but I shall adhere to the wisdom of great orator and holocaust survivor Stephen Kapos. I suggest with all due respect that his opinion bears more weight than yours or mine.
I will refer you to the opinions of Major John Spencer, head of Urban Warfare Studies in West Point's Modern Warfare Institute, who has praised Israel's efforts to avoid killing civilians (by revealing plans for actions against Hamas and advising people to leave areas in which combat will be occuring). He has noted that Hamas' fortifications were deliberately embedded so deeply amid the Gazan populace that any Israeli response to Hamas' attacks on Israel would inevitably kill some noncombatants. Major Spencer said (on X) that Hamas has gone beyond using Gazans as human shields and is, in fact, sacrificing them.
Now I know that the US rebuilt Germany and Japan after World War II and people used to joke about starting wars against the US and deliberately losing (because the US would now boost the "enemy's" economy after the war. (Check out "The Mouse That Roared", a Peter Sellers movie.
But Israel is being criticized for not supplying enough aid to the people who cheered the vow of Israel's attackers to continue raping, torturing, and killing Israelis and anyone working with them -- while the war is still ongoing!! That is unheard of. And, frankly, I'm amazed that Hamas isn't ashamed that, after 20 years of running Gaza, the people living under Hamas administration are still dependent on food, water, electricity, and medicine supplied by Israel.
You've said, "The oppressors are always wrong and the oppressed are always right. That'a a bit simplistic. People can think and learn drom life. Most of us are neither angels or devils, but people -- bad ones may have some redeeming features and very good ones may occasionally sin. Today's "Woke Folk" cling too strongly to their characterizations and act on Woke dictats instead of making their own decisions.
Has Israel besieged Gaza for about seventeen years..calorie- counted aid going into this fenced- in Palestinian enclave and prevented freedom of travel for the majority of the population or not. Has it weaponised electricity and water...turning it on or off abitrarily? Does Israel's policies deliberately confer hardship on Palestinians and attempt to repress their everyday tasks in life? Do heavily armed indoctrinated thugs invade Palestinian homes under the pretext of suspicion of "terrorist" activity therein...does the illegal Israeli occupying forces arrest young and old in what is called administrative detention and are the illegal so-called settlers constantly harassing Palestinian and Bedouin herders and farmers, intimidating families, frightening the children?.. (to my mind the worst of crimes) among the gamut of perpetual persecution. The British Empire became so by ruthless suppression of the poorly or unarmed natives of far-flung places, many other European nations the same as you well know...but what expiation of their former sins have we witnessed? The Arabs involved in the heinous practice of slavery...we know that the globe is a heaving mass of iniquity...we know that Europeans and a few others pillaged the pristine continent of the Americas...but we can't go back to re-set those abominations but we should try our best to prevent the present ones. It is known that Israel is one of the worst examples today, though there are many others but most are not described as "our allies". I believe that after the attack on the US ship "Liberty" when many were killed and injured and the Israelis claimed it was misidentification Dean Rusk is reported to have stated " I didn't believe them then and I don't believe them now". Not many do.
Yeah. That awful little country which shares its advances in agriculture, technology, and medicine with the world. The Jewish country where an Arab Supreme Court Justice sent a President to jail. The tiny country which, while under attack and suffering food shortages, rehabilitated Holocaust survivors and Mizrachim driven from their homes in the Middle East and North Africa and which still sends rescue teams when disaster strikes world wide (even to countries with which it doesn't have diplomatic relations). Israeli teams are often the first to arrive and the most effective in giving help.
Compare that to the Arabs -- despite having huge landholdings and some being oil rich, they used their numerous votes in the UN to set up a special "refugee"agency" which hasn't resettled a single "refugee" but teaches second, third, and fourth generations of Palestinians who fled or were displaced from PAlestine in Arab-initiated wars, that killing Jews is an Arab's ticket to Heaven. Consider what money wasted on the Palestine refugees' eternal internment in UNRWA "terror towns" could do for current refugees and survivors of natural disasters.
Many Israelis are troubled by the "administrative detentions." But a tiny country surrounded by enemies depends heavily about being able to act pre-emptively. And open arraignments could threaten the exposure of intelligence-gatherers' identities. Israel is not the evil entity you think it is. And the Palestinian leaders aren't the innocent victims you think they are.
Thanks again. I admire many Jews...illan Pappe who I once had the honour to pass a few words with on a pavement as we made our individual ways to a lecture he was giving...a very good man. Norman Finkelstein, Gabor Matte, Max Blumenthal, Aaron Matte, Gideon levy and others I very much like listening to though my hearing is defective and don't always hear all their interesting words. There are many in Israel that I admire...the young "refusniks"...The Peace activists...the brave individuals that attend the persecuted shepherds and farmers as they struggle with the regular incursions of those thuggish louts...in gangs and protected by IOF and police. Also some film-makers and academics that speak the truth. I must say too that I agree with what Yair Lapid stated about the recent inflammatory celebrations..."violent and degrading". Amongst the punk like gyrations of the indoctrinated, perhaps the worst and most hideous to witness was the ungracious leaps of extremely ungainly old women! But then one took in the equally repellent capers of the young ones only marginally less offensive perhaps because they so easily led. As i have said in a post elsewhere "it is hard to see how Israel could degrade itself yet further but I am certain it can find a way".
I don't know how old you are but I certainly hope that you have not been so firmly cemented into WOKE oppressed/oppressor delusions that you will never be able to look at life outside your completely predetermined notions.
Hi Toby...I am 78 and still groovin' on pretty well except for my knees! I have never understood that term WOKE and haven't bothered to investigate. I usually ignore new catch words such as "gobsmacked" etc that I presume are propagated by the crap mainstream papers. Yes I am about the same age as Israel's illegal occupation! Don't worry...the "world" has a very tenuous hold on me! Do you like this Don Vliet phrase "there would be no game brother if no-one would play"? I do. I watch birds bathe and drink. It is very relaxing.
ing
Israel is not an illegal occupier. Modern Zionists posited that the way for Jews to end persecution and repeated expulsions was to return to their ancient homeland. They began returning in the mid to late 1800's and found that Zion had become Palestine, a sparsely populated, underdeveloped area in the Southern Syrian administrative district of the Ottoman Empire. The Jews bought land and improved its productivity, built schools and hospitals, organized civil defense units, and lobbied world leaders for the cause. Many of today's Palestinians descend from Arabs who entered the area only after Zionist activity had raised its living standards. When the Ottoman Empire collapsed after entering WWI on the losing side, its land was divided into mandates and, later, modern states, the Zionists had a de facto government ready to rule.
The Arabs of Palestine might have gotten a state of their own had Arab leaders accepted the UN Partiton Plan and helped the "Southern Syrians" get ready for autonomy. But the Arab states went to war and the Jews had to defeat them so Israel could be reborn.
Instead of moaning and groaning about the "nakba" (getting trapped in refugee limbo (by their own leaders)), the Palestinians should follow the Jews' example. Remember your past, but always work to build your future.
Toby I think it not possible to continue taking up valuable space here on this subject. You can refer to the past history that you support while I shall continue to oppose the injustice...as I see it...that concerns the millions of oppressed people now. I hope that the Palestinian people attain a State where they can live free of any Israeli interference or American-designed terrorism. But that is asking a lot as the USA has wrought immeasurable harm to the world by its desire for complete control. Little Israel imitates it, fawns and purrs. At last Israel has been exposed to the world...biblical stories are expounded WHEN useful as propaganda etc but I fail to understand the latest one trotted out about Joshua and Jericho...surely that reveals that modern Israelis have not advanced one inch from the ancient ones. Do you really see Israel building a future that isn't an abomination in the eyes of the world?
I know what you mean by "Israeli interference" -- those damn Jews actually strike back when they're attacked. The Arabs have a long history of playing the victim and demanding that everyone stand with them. I used to teach chemistry at a college which had an agriculture school. One of my students was a Nigerian who'd been sent by his government for training. He told me that Israel had been helping Nigeria to improve its farming practices but the Nigerian govenment put a halt to that because the Arab nations in North Africa had insisted that the black African countries should stand with their fellow Africans. I asked my student what help the Arabs had provided when Nigeria stop accepting Israeli assistance. He said, "Nothing. The Arabs didn't even give us the cheap oil they promised."
If exposure to thinking beyond your "everyone is either an oppressor or an oppressee and I (Jeffery John Higgs) know exactly who is in each group and I also know that no member of either group ever acts in opposition to my classification," you can stop my replying to your messages. Just stop writing to me.